Talk:Star Trek: Phase II
Phase II image website I have quite a lot of Phase II images at my website. See http://www.robsacc.nl/ottens/conceptart.html here. Should I include it as an External Link? Ottens 22:19, 30 Jun 2004 (CEST) :I guess it should. ;) Ottens 22:49, 30 Jun 2004 (CEST) Phase II -> TNG? Could we make some sort of list of episodes planned for Phase II but used for TNG in stead? Perhaps we could add a small note (later TNG: "Episode") to the short descriptions already in the article. -- Redge 15:20, 24 Jul 2004 (CEST) :I thought there were only two of those, and there it has been mentioned... Ottens 16:02, 24 Jul 2004 (CEST) ::Sorry, I misseed that. I'll just make some links directly to the episodes themselves, makes wikisurfing a lot easier. -- Redge 16:24, 24 Jul 2004 (CEST) writers/director guide i have a star trek II guide from 1977. any value to it? The McQuarrie Enterprise To say that this was a design for Phase II is misleading. McQuarrie's concepts were for the abandoned Planet of the Titans film which really had very little whatsoever to do with the series that was planned later. Jefferies updates to the original series design were always what was intended to be used for Phase II. IIRC, this can be verified by the Reeves-Stevenses' Star Trek: Phase II - The Making of the Lost Series. Unfortunately, similarly-misleading captions in their Art of Star Trek and the subsequent repetition of such misnomers as "Phase II prototype" on EAS have added to the confusion. Before erasing someone's work by deleting the information and images regarding the design from the article, however, I wanted to get some discussion going about maybe creating a separate article for Planet of the Titans or otherwise revising the format.--The Mighty Monkey of Mim 11:28, 19 Dec 2005 (UTC) "Elements Perhaps Used..." What sort of proof do we have that any of the Phase II scriptwork got used for TNG episodes like "Genesis," "Angel One," or "Peak Performance"? It reads like someone decided to try REALLY HARD to match up the episodes to TNG ones that really had little or no connection. Unless we have a source somewhere that says, "I wrote this episode, and I stole some elements from this Phase II script," it really has no business being there. I'll leave it for a while, but I'm going to delete those additions if there isn't some real discussion to convince me otherwise. —SavMan 04:20, 30 Dec 2005 (UTC) Moved from Vfd Xon. Okay, I can tell this ones gonna cause a stir. The fact is, in canon trek, Xon, never existed, if we keep the article than all other info in unproduced scripts and cut scenes are canon too. The info is important, and should be placed into the phase II page, but it can't exist on its own.Jaz 22:24, 8 Jan 2006 (UTC) * Keep-- only on account of the fact that we allow many other useful cut script references (ex. the second , USS Hawk and much much more). At least in this case there is proof a character existed, and not just a mere line removed from the script. Must less the fact this page is over a year and a half old. --Alan del Beccio 00:09, 9 Jan 2006 (UTC) *'KEEP'. The article is about a completely legitimate subject. Memory Alpha is supposed to be an encyclopedia to the Star Trek franchise, therefore all aspects must be covered. -- Krevaner 01:03, 9 Jan 2006 (UTC) :*But in canon it appears that Xon never existed, and instead we have Sonak, the new science officer killed in a transporter accident. I'm not saying he shouldn't be mentioned, but if we want to keep him, the rest of our policy must change. He was not in any of the categories listed as acceptable sources at and policies, and is therefor the equivilant of a non-canon character. Jaz 01:25, 9 Jan 2006 (UTC) * Merge. I believe Jaz is right. This is not a cut reference from an otherwise valid resource, it's information from the never produced Phase II. Unless we change our Canon policy to include that, I suggest to merge that on a production POV article about Phase II, just like non-canon characters from novels are handled. -- Cid Highwind 01:33, 9 Jan 2006 (UTC) * Redirect to Star Trek: Phase II and merge, similar to what was done for Nicole Janeway. I think the unique nature of Xon's character and the fact that it's so well known warrants at least that much. -- SmokeDetector47| TALK 02:29, 9 Jan 2006 (UTC) Keep, we have articles on actors even though most if not all of them are never brought up in the Canon. WE reference, non canon tech manuals, so why can't we reference the fact that they had written, and cast an actor/character that was not used. He is non canon, but it is a part of Star Trek History. --TOSrules 03:21, 9 Jan 2006 (UTC) *You have admitted he's non-canon, and since he's clearly not a real person, he does not, by our own policy, deserve a page. If you have a problem with this deletion, your issue is with the policy, not this incident. Jaz 03:25, 9 Jan 2006 (UTC) *Hmmm... I think it would be best to move the info from this article into Star Trek: Phase II, keeping Xon itself as a redirect to that page (or perhaps even to Sonak), as SmokeDetector47 recommended above. This character is no different that Nicole Janeway, and should be treated the same. --From Andoria with Love 03:41, 9 Jan 2006 (UTC) *I like this character, so I'm not sure. I guess Merge and Redirect to Phase II seems appropriate, but not Sonak.--Tim Thomason 08:33, 9 Jan 2006 (UTC) *'Comment'. Jaz is right again. May I remind everyone that this page is not the place to discuss policy, just the place to decide if actions regarding a page are valid according to existing policy? And according to our , the issue is clear. -- Cid Highwind 11:38, 9 Jan 2006 (UTC) :*To further my point, if we take this for face value, it means we also have to accept every other Phase II script as canon. Most of you know that TNG episodes and are re-writes of unused Phase II scripts. If we accept phase II as cannon, we are admitting that both Deanna Troi and Ilia were inpregnated by identicle alians, had identicle outcomes, and almost identicle dialogue, and that the planet Ventax II was twice conned by Ardra, only to be rescued by both Kirk on the original enterprise, and then Picard, 100 years later, in the exact same situation, on the Ent-D. Now do you understand why this page must go? Jaz 06:08, 11 Jan 2006 (UTC) *Could an Admin kindly merge the page? Jaz 22:42, 12 Jan 2006 (UTC) **'Merged' with Star Trek: Phase II. -- Cid Highwind 22:53, 12 Jan 2006 (UTC) Brouching and scraling? I know this is totally off-topic, but I can't find a better place to ask. The description for the episode "Savage Syndrome" refers to the crew "brouching and scraling at each other." Can anyone clarify what those two words mean? --Jed H ( 17:33, 18 September 2006 (UTC)) :20 months later, the question still isn't answered! Actually, though, I love the words. They somehow seem more evocative than "fighting and yelling" or some other more pedestrian variants. Vivienne marcus 22:10, 10 June 2008 (UTC) Is this written correctly this is about the illia section :Her face is breathtakingly beautiful. But like all Deltans, she is completely hairless except for the eyes ?????? -- :That is what Gene Roddenberry and Jon Povill wrote. What is the particular problem? --OuroborosCobra talk 04:42, 1 October 2006 (UTC) ::It does seem odd, but I believe that they were referring to eyelashes, and possibly eyebrows. It is a bit of an odd way to write it, but that's the way that they wrote it 20+ years ago. -- Sulfur 12:17, 1 October 2006 (UTC) Richard Bach Is the Richard Bach mentioned as the author of the episode "Practice in Waking" Jonathan Livingston Seagull author Richard Bach, or some other Richard Bach? 15:28, 5 November 2006 (UTC) Yes it's the same guy. He was also married to TOS actress Leslie Parrish (Carolyn Palamas of "Who Mourns for Adonais?") at the time. Several of his books are dedicated "to Leslie". (Ian McLean, 5 January 2007) this was from me before I knew about tildas Therin of Andor 07:29, 17 July 2008 (UTC) From Talk:Xon I believe someone else played the Vulcan science officer in The Motion Picture... Ottens 21:48, 30 Jun 2004 (CEST) :Yes, but that was Commander Sonak, not Lieutenant Xon. Gautreaux had a cameo as Commander Branch, the CO of Epsilon IX, hence the wording of the background info. -- Michael Warren 22:02, 30 Jun 2004 (CEST) ::Okay. I add that to the article... Ottens 22:04, 30 Jun 2004 (CEST) :::I believe this page should either be removed or the information should be added to another article - Xon was never mentioned or even seen in canon Trek! --Defiant | ''Talk'' 06:07, 11 Apr 2005 (EDT) I agree fully with Defiant, after all that character basically became Sonak, where this information could be listed as well. I suggest to move this page's content over to Sonak as background notes and make this a candidate for deletion. Kennelly 16:38, 31 Dec 2005 (UTC) ::::uh, this seems to be a talk page of a non-existant article-- 14:16, 5 June 2006 (UTC) :::::The article Xon was merged into Star Trek: Phase II and "talk:Xon"'s history saved on this page. -- Ⓚⓞⓑⓘ 14:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC) ::::::That doesn't really make any sense, shouldn't the talk pages have been merged?-- 14:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC) Wikipedia There are a bunch of people reverting the Phase II page on Wikipedia to this one. Is this acceptable or should I try to stop them? - 18:52, 31 December 2006 (UTC) :Wikipedia is already handling the situation. They have reverted the article to a version not copied from Memory Alpha, and seem to have protected it from editing. Thank you for bringing this to our attention though. As MA and WP are published under incompatible licenses, material cannot be copied directly from one to the other. --OuroborosCobra talk 21:41, 31 December 2006 (UTC) How come your episode list mentions "Devil's Due" but omits "The Child"? Did someone just remove it? It should be placed ahead of "Cassandra", IIRC. "The Child" script written for "Phase II" by Jaron Summers and Jon Povill features Ilia and her "daughter" Irska, rather than Troi and her "son", Ian Andrew Troi Jr. (Therin of Andor aka Ian McLean, 5 January, 2007) No reply to this question, so I restored it yesterday. Therin of Andor 05:00, 12 July 2008 (UTC) Photo(s) The photo of William Shatner as Kirk is from Star Trek: The Motion Picture, and not ST: Phase II, as he's wearing the costume from the movie. To save money, the Phase II producers were going to re-use Bill Theiss' Starfleet Uniform designs from The Original Series. (If I remember correctly, that's in the Stevens' book about Phase II.) Adambomb1701 20:21, 16 January 2007 (UTC) :As far as I remember, it is the other way around. TMP used stuff made for Phase II to save money. --OuroborosCobra talk 17:26, 16 January 2007 (UTC) Mostly sets, and possibly props, were re-used from Phase II. Bob Fletcher, who did TMP costume designs, was hired for the movie; he was not involved with Phase II. TMP still cost some $44 million to make, and a lot of the cost was from all the false starts between 1975-77, including Phase II. -- Adambomb1701 20:21, 16 January 2007 (UTC) The photo of David Gautreaux as Xon also isn't a publicity photo. Rather, I think it's a still taken from his screen test. - Adambomb1701 21:10, 9 March 2007 (UTC) Costumes and Plagiarism The post about Shatner's costume being TMP and not Phase II is correct...Phase II was going to use the costumes from the original series to save money. One of the few things Robert Wise replaced outright when he became director of the film was costumes. Additionally, much of this article (such as the bit about Phase II being a "tough sell" with its 13 episodes) comes STRAIGHT out of the 1997 Star Trek Phase II book mentioned previously. However, these passages aren't quoted and credit is not given. : I know this might be asking a lot, but all of those sections need to be removed and replaced with a tag, followed by a similar statement as is said above at Memory Alpha:Possible copyright infringements. Since I do not have this reference book, I really can not initiate it. --Alan del Beccio 23:52, 19 January 2007 (UTC) ::That particular passage referenced above is also on Ottens site here, and I suspect (since he's worked on the article numerous times) that either he or someone else (presumably with his knowledge) copied it from there. -- Renegade54 06:09, 20 January 2007 (UTC) Some weird concept art... Do you guys know where this picture might be coming from? The image was uploadad without any source given... 23:47, 2 May 2007 (UTC) :That appears to be one of the models designed for the Enterprise in Phase II, as shown at B-24-CLN. Nonetheless, I do not know where that has come from, and it would be best to ask the uploader them self. ;) - V. Adm. Enzo Aquarius 00:02, 3 May 2007 (UTC) Yeah, I already read the story about the B-24-CLN but I didn't know that this model was built from that sketches. yeah, I know by now that it's obvious... ;) I just thought someone could know it, in case the uploader does not anymore. 00:59, 4 May 2007 (UTC) Original name Was it originally Star Trek: Phase II or Star Trek II? The Star Trek Encyclopedia entry is named as Star Trek II. -- 06:49, 20 January 2008 (UTC) I have the Writers Guide and it was simply Star Trek II on the cover, but Roddenberry first started referring to it as Star Trek: Phase II to distinguish it from the second movie; the first usage I heard was Shatner when narrating a Star Trek documentary. Therin of Andor 04:57, 12 July 2008 (UTC) Removed from page An anonymous removed the thumbnail to the left from the page stating in the edit summary "Deleted image of early TMP--not PHASE II--ship.". This is a little strange because the other thumbnail at the top of the page seems to show the same ship design and states "Early poster art for ''The Motion Picture featured the Phase II design, as apparent from this image''". So, either the edit removed too much, or not enough information from the page. I don't know which it is, so I'm just keeping this here. -- Cid Highwind 10:53, December 23, 2010 (UTC) :The first image was from the artwork for Phase II. From the book itself that talked about Phase II. I'm really not sure what the anon got up to there. -- sulfur 11:15, December 23, 2010 (UTC)